Reenact-SA

Ok, here's the deal. Ive heard lots of conflicting stories about what a "correct" set of K98 pouches should look like. Ive gone to a few reputable websites and checked out the info, I have very little regarding any of this in actual books, but from what I can gather, there are different types made by different manufacturers throughout the 1933-1945 period. sheesh!

Here's some info Ive copied from www.stinch.com who alot of the info on there is by a writer/researcher from Denmark who was an avid collector before his death in 2006. He also contributed to the Wehrmacht-Awards forum frequently.

The leather German Karabiner 98 (K98) rifle ammunition pouch or Patronentaschen 98K was one of the most widely produced field gear items of World War II and was designated the M1911. Its predecessor from the First World War was the M1909 which could hold a total of forty five rounds. Each of the three pouches of the M1911 could hold two - five round 7.92mm K98 rifle clips. This gave each pouch a total capacity of thirty rounds. With each soldier having been issued two pouches (one for second line personnel), the number of pouches produced was quite large and as a result, required many manufacturers. These suppliers were in many locations throughout Germany and its occupied territories. It is unknown exactly how many manufacturers there were, but the numbers were easily in the hundreds. The Patronentaschen 98K was produced for the Heer (Army), Kriegsmarine (Navy), Luftwaffe (Air Force), Polizei (Police), DRP (Deutsche Reichspost) and the combat arm of the Schutzstaffel (Waffen-SS).

Production of the K98 ammunition pouch changed during the Third Reich years 1933-45. It was produced in three general variations or patterns; early, transitional, and late. The early pattern used all aluminum fittings and had two open style belt loops. This style of loop was machine stitched and/or riveted to top of the pouch back, and the end would fold under the pocket bottom to be secured over an aluminum post. The wearer could attach the pouch without having to remove the belt. Early pattern pouches are found stamped with the years 1933-1942. During 1940, a transitional pattern began to appear that used a combination of aluminum and steel (or all steel) fittings with the open style belt straps. Transitional pattern pouches are found dated as late as 1944. The late pattern pouch appeared in 1941 with a closed style belt loop and steel fittings used throughout. This style of belt loop was fastened to the top of the back as the early style, but was permanently fastened with rivets at the lower edge of the back. This effectively "closed" the strap and forced the wearer to remove his belt to get the pouches on and off. Late pattern pouches are generally found dated 1942-1944 with 1941 dated pouches being rare. Only two manufacturers of the late pattern pouch are known by the author for the year 1941, these being "Lederwerke Windelen K.G." of "Heinsberg/Rhld." and "FR. OFFERMAN u. SOHNE" of "BENSBERG". Various methods of lid strap attachment and pocket bottom contruction was used during the entire production of the K98 pouch. Stitching was used for early pattern pouches, riveted and/or sewn for later. The stitch direction on the lid straps was usually horizontal, but vertical stitching was also used, even with the addition of rivets.

Pebbled leather was the primary material used in the manufacture of the K98 pouch. An unknown manufacturer produced late war (closed belt strap) pouches with a "diamond" pattern. An example of this leather type used in a pouch can be found here. Another variation, called the "Stone Wall" pattern, has irregular shaped pebbles giving it the appearance of a stone wall. The unknown manufacturer EZGJ used this leather type in 1943 and 1944. Images of these leather patterns are found below.

Twenty-two separate pieces of leather made up the early pattern pouch. The parts include (1) three pocket pressed-formed unit, (3) rawhide clip dividers, (3) pocket lids, (3) lid straps, (2) backing, (2) belt straps, (2) belt strap spacers, (1) equipment loop, (2) lower belt loop straps, and (3) inside pocket bottom liners. Late pattern pouches didn't have the two (2) lower belt loop straps, but did have two (2) belt straps spacers. Late pattern pouches may or may not have the three (3) pebbled leather liners inside each pocket bottom.

The color of the leather pouches produced in the thirty's was various shades of natural leather. Branches of the Wehrmacht had a preference for certain shades. The Heer, Kriegsmarine and Police generally used pouches that were natural (tan/butter) in color. The Luftwaffe used a chocolate brown until 1942. There is no steadfast rule for colors used by the branches and many variations can be found. Sometime in October/November 1939, a High Command order was issued changing the color of leather items to black, possibly for camouflage reasons. Many early pouches can be found with the original natural color on the belt side and the outer surface dyed black to conform with the order. It is still possible to find pouches that were not field dyed, although they are not common. By the end of 1940 going into 1941, manufacturers were producing most pouches with black leather materials. Some pouches can still be found brown with a 1942 date. Pouches used in the early days of the Afrika Korps (DAK) were sometimes natural but this color was not used for very long and the DAK adapted black as the standard.

Construction of the pouch was mostly machine sewn together with metal rivets used at stress points on mid to late war pouches. Aluminum was used until 1941/42 when it was replaced with steel. Inside each of the three pockets was a narrow rawhide divider to separate the ammunition clips. It was held at each end with a single rivet and reinforcement washer. It is not unusual to find these dividers missing from used pouches as they were easily damaged and/or removed by the owners in the field. Most K98 pouches captured by the Russians have these inner dividers removed. The belt side of the center pocket had a short leather loop with an equipment ring attached. The ring was either shaped like a "D" or rectangular. Aluminum was used for early pouches while steel was used as the war progressed. The "D" ring style is found on early pouches while the rectangular style ring was used for later produced pouches. The leather loop was sewn and secured with two rivets near the top edge of the back. Later style pouches/equipment loops were attached to the back with four rivets instead of two with stitching. Various reinforcement plates were used with these rivets; single washers or rectangular plates. In the field, the equipment ring was then attached to the soldiers combat "Y" strap hooks. The equipment belt also supported the weight of other fieldgear.

The belt side of the two end compartments each had an 18mm wide (sometimes wider) vertically mounted strap that the equipment waist belt would go through. The leather used for the strap was smooth and usually has two lines pressed near each of the long edges although later types may not have these lines. The top of the strap was sewn (one row of six stitches) and riveted to the back. A small (approximately 18mm x 7mm) rectangular plate was used for reinforcement. Between the back and the top of strap was a small wedged shaped piece of leather that spaced the strap away from the back of the pouch. This gave the equipment belt some room between the strap and the pouch back. Early style pouches then slipped under a small strap (riveted at each end to the pouch back). The remaining end would fold under the pocket and onto a metal post. The belt straps used on later style pouches were simply sewn and riveted at the bottom and did not fold under the pocket. They also included a small leather spacer between the back and the lower strap ends, creating a thin gap for the belt to slip through.

Each of the three pockets were covered by a lid that was sewn between the two inner and outer back pieces and folded over the top of each pocket. The lid ends were curve tapered and sewn to the lid outer edge with around 12 stitches at each end. Each lid had a 16mm wide strap that was usually pebbled to match the pouch, some had a smooth finish. The early pattern pouches had straps that were typically sewn to the lid with two horizontal rows of six stitches. The strap extended down the outside of the compartment, then folded under the pocket bottom and ended with a large hole in the end that was slipped over a metal post mounted to the pocket bottom. This strap securing method was used on all types of K98 pouches. It is uncommon to find pouch lid straps with two vertical columns of stitches, but they do exist. Even more uncommon are pouches with two rows of vertical stitching and rivets in between. By 1942, two round head rivets began to replace the stitching on lid straps and in other areas of pouch construction.

The post mounted to the bottom of each compartment was either aluminum and/or steel depending on the manufacturing period. Early style posts were aluminum and extended about 15-16mm from the compartment bottom. The center post had a round ball shaped end, while the ends were more pointed. With transitional pattern pouches, it is possible to find a mix of steel and aluminum posts on the same pouch or just all steel. I have in my collection a transitional 1940 dated pouch, manufactured by LIEFG.-GEN. WIRTSCH.-GEB.III (20061005-02), with all steel posts on bottom of each compartment. The post was shortened when the belt strap was no longer folded under the compartment as with late pattern pouches. This type of post was usually steel and all three had a ball or mushroom shaped end. It is possible to find some late pattern pouches with long posts.

Maker marks are commonly found on K98 pouches. While some pouches were never marked, most had a manufacturer stamp pressed into the back of the leather pouch. Some pouches were maker stamped, but time and age has weaked the text as to make them unreadable. The impression was made into the back before the pouch was assembled as evidenced by some pouches that have the loop and belt straps (in the case of two pocket pouches) over the stamp. An example of a manufacturer stamp is shown above. In some cases, the equipment loop partial covers the impression.

The most common stamps were placed in an area below the equipment ring/loop that indicated the manufacturer, location and year produced. These manufacturer named stamps are found on early M1911 pouches starting in 1933. Manufacturer names and cities are usually found on pouches up to around 1940 although it is possible to find them as late as 1944. Manufacturer Enders (Viersen, Germany) is an example of a dated 1944 pouch with maker text (see photo left). Three letter codes in uppercase (ie "ABC") are usually abbreviations for manufacturers. In 1940, three letter codes in lowercase (ie "abc") characters were also starting to be used and lasted until the the war's end.

By late 1942, the use of names and three letter codes was to be phased out. They were replaced with National factory code numbers. This system may have simply been a better way to track all the thousands of components manufactured for the war effort. Some say the system was created to hide the factory locations that could have been used by the Allies to bomb factories. This factory code system is called the RB Nr. (Reichbetrieb Nummer) system. The RF. Nr. (Reich Fabrik Nummer) number system followed in late 1944. Both numbers are found in the format 0/0000/0000 with the first number either a "0" or a "1", the former the most common. Today these RB/RF numbers are rarely connected with a specific manufacturer but some pouches have been found with the name and RB number pressed on the same pouch or other equipment. This has been the only known way to decipher the numbers as a complete conversion table is not known to exist. Although very uncommon, RBNr numbers are also found on the lid strap, belt strap (shown above right), and ink stamped inside a pocket lid.

Waffenamts were almost never used on K98 pouches. The author has a black leather pouch dated 1941 that has an unusual eagle over SS runes followed by "ZZA". This stamp can't be ruled out as a waffenamt and deserves further research. More on this pouch below.

Inventory stamps in ink or impressions are sometimes found inside the lids of Heer and some Luftwaffe pouches. It is speculated that the pouches were shipped with only the maker mark impression on the back. The supply depots would sometimes ink or impression stamp an inventory number. Unit designations were sometimes added as well. In both cases, the underside of the lids was a common location for these stamps. It is thought that the Kriegsmarine did not ink stamp the pouches. Examples of inventory stamps are, a "B", "K", "E" followed by a two digit year number. The "B" indicates Heeresbekleidungsamt of Berlin and "E" is Erfurt. Inventory stamp "L 37" is also known and is most likely a Luftwaffe inventory stamp. An uncommon acceptance impression starting with a "K" (ie "K35") may indicate the depot in "Königsberg" which was isolated from the rest of mainland Germany during Weimar period by the Polish Corridor. After the soldiers were issued their K98 pouches, they sometimes put their names and/or unit markings inside the lid or straps although these additional markings were phased out around 1940.

Branch markings varied depending on the military arm. It is common to find "DRP" impression inside very early pre-war pouches (1933-34). It is thought that the letters "DRP" are short for Deutsche Reichspost or German Post Office. It is not clear as to why the DRP needed rifles and pouches, perhaps the markings was a ruse to keep it non-military. The Kriegsmarine commonly used a "M" under an eagle and swastika stamped on the backside (seen at right). At least three overall designs of Kriegsmarine markings are known to exist with many variations. See the Kriegsmarine Acceptance Marks page for more information. The Luftwaffe use the letters "LBA" (Luftwaffe Bekleidungsamt or Clothing Depot) followed by a number stamped under a pocket lid, usually the middle one.

The Waffen-SS used the RZM stamp with runes on many items, but these markings are not known to exist on K98 pouches. The SS stamps are rare and many fakes do exist. The author has in his collection a 1941 dated late pattern pouch that has an eagle over what appears to be the text "SS-ZZA". This is stamped below the maker mark "FR. OFFERMAN u. SOHNE BENSBERG". Both stamps appear to be old and seem have been applied during the same period. The runes are difficult to see but are clear under a magnifying glass.


*To see the pictures this report is talking about you will need to go the website and read up and see for yourself. However interesting to note the differing looks of the pouches. I have been told that all rivetted pouches were post war, repros and so on...also that original pouches were smooth only....I dont disagree with the information given, just looking into it further.

Craig,

Don't know who told you that, but no, they were all made from "patterened" leather (but look smooth in 2009, as they are really worn after all this time). Also, your informant is incorrect regarding rivetted pouches.

Andy.

thanks Andy, Im glad I "question" things, its how we learn eh? But when I get told things that conflict with what I "nearly" know but am I am unsure of, I look deeper and deeper until my brain pops! heh-heh!! But it would seem that the evidence is overwhleming regarding the pouches. Im happy and will now sleep tonight! WooHOOOO!!!

I can assure you the rivited pouch I have is original. So original that the leather ripped at the fort and my D ring came off. Was a shit one anyway...

Craig have you made yours look less repro now? They dont tan repro leather, it's too expensive so they apply some sort of paint. Get some sand paper and dull polish into them, then jump on them, seriously, proper leather they used was not that hard and angular.

no yet B, but I will...I like the idea of jumping on em....heh-heh!!!

*jumps* Take THAT you filthy K98 pouch!!! and THAT!!! ooo...and YOU k98 pouch...*kicks it across backyard* take THAT you bastard!!!

I can see I'll have fun doing that!

Given them a good soak in Linseed oil also helps soften them.

Andy

My brain exploded trying to read that article.

LOL. Also, I should add as a extra to my other post....that after you brush on linseed oil liberally, fill the pouch with spent blanks on stripper clips and leave them in for a month or so. This will help the pouches take on the correct shape.

Andy

Sorry Brad! ha-ha!! Mine exploded trying to find that article! heh-heh!!

haha, 'mine' exploded. Funny mental image

Yep...I stood one for 3 hours...lost a leg...but it was worth it. At least I know now the proper K98 pouch regime! I keep getting this itch in my ghost leg....